I agree to some extent, I use my XTi a fair amount and it will be backup for weddings, but I understand completely by what you mean. My opinions on people shooting weddings without the proper knowledge in tools is no secret, and the people who "hire" them tend to be setting themselves up for dissapointment.

so you hate the fact that he's eager to start something that he has no business starting?

or is it the fact that he more than likely WILL give real photog's a bad name by misrepresenting himself...


if you see this "FRIEND" about to crash and burn, let him... it'll only make him better or worse..

Lemme be the first to say--I sure ain't quitting my dayjob anytime soon!

i agree but the dudes that buy 1d's and think they're instantly the **** are even worse.

True, there's just fewer of them.

The worst ones are the people that buy Pentax cameras. Seriously.

Originally Posted by b84wm

i agree but the dudes that buy 1d's and think they're instantly the **** are even worse.

Or those pentax guys... Man they are the worst. Claiming to be the original house of pancakes...

OHOP?

good job, both of you ass clowns posting your rubbish and that other dude too

Originally Posted by emorphien

OHOP?

yup, its IHOP bc Pentax claimed OHOP.... true story.

I <3 Pentax

Originally Posted by beezwax

I <3 Pentax

they why dont you marry it.





fail.

I was a pro from the moment I touched my Rebel. But, it was a Rebel XT so that's different.



But seriously, I know what you mean. It's easy to get a nice camera and get caught up in thinking you're a pro too quickly. Usually people like that don't need any help failing.

Originally Posted by beezwax

I <3 to poop on Pentax

Fixed for ya'!

Originally Posted by subimatt

they why dont you marry it.

fail.

just trying to keep the peace... thats all

sounds like the op is onto me plans

Originally Posted by Markitos

Fixed for ya'!

lol... he called the ****, poop!!!

Well, the real disservice is to the people who hire them to capture a once in a lifetime event. I've got no problem with someone trying to get started making money on a shoestring budget, I mean, I think we all would like to do it. But, in getting started, pick something that has no victims when you fail.

I think Matt used landscape photography as an example in another thread, because if you miss the shot, try again tomorrow. The only one disappointed is you. Miss a shot in a wedding or some other event, that's it. That's one thing that makes me never want to do it. I have a ton of respect for the people who do this kind of work. Not that I can't handle stress or pressure, I do it all the time at my day job. The difference is, I have almost 20 years experience at that job. I can put things like that out of my mind and concentrate on the job at hand. The same goes for experienced photographers.

Its just like when kids buy a 240SX and go out driving like they are the new drift king...they might get lucky and get the car sideways with out wrecking it...but its not cause they were in control.

I was the 2nd photographer at a friends wedding. I did it for free and my results were better than the person they hired so it worked out but I think it was less that I was really good and that the hired photographer sucked lol.

At my sister's wedding 2 years ago, I had to chase the photographer down to give him the 2 rolls of film he dropped. The guy was a total ass, too. People were taking snapshots while he was posing them, and he got all irate. "I'm the photographer!" My uncle told him they were just taking pictures of the day, and no one was interfering, then asked if their cameras would be confiscated.

Lemme be the second to say--I sure ain't quitting my dayjob anytime soon!

Originally Posted by ride5000

the real issue here is one of narcissism, overestimating one's own abilities, and disrespecting the amount of experience that others who make it look easy have. but i guess that's a mouthful, eh?

I agree with Ken. I don't see an issue with a rebel at all. Scott is a perfect example of this. Is he getting better shots with better gear now? Sure, but is his talent what makes the images? You bet. Similarly Matt shoots weddings with a XTi (and other gear) and we could give him 2 XTis and he could shoot an entire wedding no problem and get the same shots he would with his 30D... Sure he might miss a few due to buffer issues and AF and the high ISO noise would be worse, but my point is the photographer makes the images what they are...

The composition is the same regardless of the body, so the only real difference is the technical merit of the body. Can it AF? Can is buffer those shots? Is it usable at high ISOs if needed?

So while I agree with you it's annoying people think they're all of a sudden Ansel Adams, it's has NOTHING to do with the body, and everything to do with the incorrect feedback they're getting from people. That or they actually are good photographers.

Originally Posted by LateApex

The guy was a total ass, too. People were taking snapshots while he was posing them, and he got all irate. "I'm the photographer!" My uncle told him they were just taking pictures of the day, and no one was interfering, then asked if their cameras would be confiscated.

Let me point something out here. If you've ever looked at shooting a wedding from the photogs end it's a giant PITA when aunt sue and uncle bob come in with the P&S. It's not too bad during all the informal events, but when you're doing the group shots, when they come in and snipe with the P&S, people in the shots will then be looking at different cameras and smiling at different people... That alone will ruin a perfect shot setup by the photographer.

Now there are different ways to handle this... The biggest issue is some photogs don't want you to shoot that shot because you'll also be able to "give" them the same shot (not the same quality) for "free" and he'll lose sales... But beyond that it ruins the shots when people are looking the wrong way FOR BOTH PHOTOGRAPHERS!!! The best way to handle it is for the photog to talk to someone or the group and point out that he needs everyone looking at his camera. I've seen some where they'll setup the group, tell all the aunts uncles to "fire away", then ask them to stop so he can also shoot it. That works VERY WELL for getting everyone looking at his camera, but depending on how the sell their work can effect the bottom line. Realistically you're going to have other people shooting, so you might as well be nice and handle it this way, but I can understand how some photogs get irate...

It's also another reason why it's nice to shoot most of those shots BEFORE the wedding. Aunt Sue usually isn't there yet. But yeah, use tact to get people to help you out. Don't get pissed at them. But I've also seen contracts where other photogs/cameras are forbidden...

You guys are looking way too far in to this. It's slang, and I think calling it the Rebel effect is certainly appropriate and suitably silly. The Rebel is a very popular camera and no doubt people buy it (or cameras like it) and think it makes them a great photographer.


Just because the Rebel is a good tool and many people do great work with it doesn't make what Bruce says any less true for many people. It's exactly as was mentioned above, people buy a fast car or a car with AWD and instantly think they are pro racers.

the funny thing is half of the people that fall into this category take better pictures with their P&S because of it's auto programs and "better" DOF...

Originally Posted by jacobsen1

Let me point something out here. If you've ever looked at shooting a wedding from the photogs end it's a giant PITA when aunt sue and uncle bob come in with the P&S. It's not too bad during all the informal events, but when you're doing the group shots, when they come in and snipe with the P&S, people in the shots will then be looking at different cameras and smiling at different people... That alone will ruin a perfect shot setup by the photographer.

Now there are different ways to handle this... The biggest issue is some photogs don't want you to shoot that shot because you'll also be able to "give" them the same shot (not the same quality) for "free" and he'll lose sales... But beyond that it ruins the shots when people are looking the wrong way FOR BOTH PHOTOGRAPHERS!!! The best way to handle it is for the photog to talk to someone or the group and point out that he needs everyone looking at his camera. I've seen some where they'll setup the group, tell all the aunts uncles to "fire away", then ask them to stop so he can also shoot it. That works VERY WELL for getting everyone looking at his camera, but depending on how the sell their work can effect the bottom line. Realistically you're going to have other people shooting, so you might as well be nice and handle it this way, but I can understand how some photogs get irate...

It's also another reason why it's nice to shoot most of those shots BEFORE the wedding. Aunt Sue usually isn't there yet. But yeah, use tact to get people to help you out. Don't get pissed at them. But I've also seen contracts where other photogs/cameras are forbidden...

I completely understand the points you made, and I agree with them, for the most part. My story was told mainly to point out his unprofessionalism. The family would have never remembered being asked to wait to take their own pictures nicely, but the way he did it was the topic of many a discussion after the wedding.

i believe there's a k100d effect also

<-----

Yeah I certainly don't think too much of a lot of the pictures I take. Hell, I don't even want to invest in more lenses until I know what the hell I'm doing with the camera and settings. Yes, I have had a few decent shots come out the way I wanted them to, but I am still wayyyyy off from thinking of myself even being an amateur. I still classify myself in the RTFM group.

-K

I feel the same way about people without experience who buy restaurants just because they can and they seem like a "fun" business to persue. Sometimes they are successful, but generally those restaurants are poorly run, go out of business, and make it seem that being successful is that much more difficult.

I'm sure there are all sorts of analogues, but it's just that mentality that you can buy your way into success, or that you can instantly jump into something that others have been doing for a long time, and do it as well, or better.

The thing is, some people CAN do that... but they generally don't brag about it, or flaunt it, because they are too busy being successful.

Originally Posted by Markitos

The thing is, some people CAN do that... but they generally don't brag about it, or flaunt it, because they are too busy being successful.

Good point. It CAN happen, people can become very good at something very quickly, they just aren't the ones talking about it.

i guess this is as good of a place to post this as any

Originally Posted by ride5000

and no matter how good your stuff is, there's ALWAYS a guy with better stuff, which makes you want better stuff too.

Guess I'm a bit odd then, I don't want better stuff. My setup isn't the best but even if I had all the money in the world, I'd still be shooting with my same camera setup. I'd definitely have a carbon fiber tripod though.

Originally Posted by ride5000

i totally agree... and i think i'm starting to see a pattern...

it's the STUFF!

there's always some physical, tangible thing that gets purchased that suddenly makes the person feel superhuman.

tennis racket, golf clubs, skis, cameras, guitars, cars, motorcycles, power tools, computers.. you name it.

it's gear-ism, plain and simple... thinking that the STUFF makes you what you are and/or gives you some advantage over the next guy, who only has lesser STUFF.

and no matter how good your stuff is, there's ALWAYS a guy with better stuff, which makes you want better stuff too.

viva la capitalism.

i agree with you, it's just sad they all come together to battle it out.

i'm on the opposite end of the spectrum, i like getting good deals and turning cheap crap (see my DIY bag thread) into cool stuff that's unique. trust me, there's WAY more pride in working hard for your money and buying things in a carefully, concise manner rather than blowing money on random **** and flaunting your purchase(s) around the interwebs.

my 2¢

I mostly just feel sorry for people who hire someone suffering from the rebel effect. Obviously these are no budget weddings, but missing all the important moments will suck.

Originally Posted by ride5000

see????

no one is immune!

But, I also have been known to build tripods out of rocks, so I may just quit carrying one altogether.

scott is a rock-pod ninja!

I'm about to post up a rock-tripod'd shot in Sharing. Be on the lookout!

Originally Posted by Stime187

Guess I'm a bit odd then, I don't want better stuff. My setup isn't the best but even if I had all the money in the world, I'd still be shooting with my same camera setup. I'd definitely have a carbon fiber tripod though.

I had a response to this typed up but NSOP ate it and then I needed a proxy.

Originally Posted by LucKie355

Yes, I have had a few decent shots come out the way I wanted them to.

-K

O rly? Share them then!!!
and this is not a stab at what you have shared, it's a stab at you not sharing enough Kiki.

Originally Posted by b84wm

i'm on the opposite end of the spectrum, i like getting good deals and turning cheap crap (see my DIY bag thread) into cool stuff that's unique. trust me, there's WAY more pride in working hard for your money and buying things in a carefully, concise manner rather than blowing money on random **** and flaunting your purchase(s) around the interwebs.

my 2¢

I'm halfway there. I love being a cheap bastard with bags, remotes and random accessories. But I'll admit I'm a lens whore. I want them ALL!!!!

One of each? Yes Please!

yeah, i'm leaning towards the lens whore thing too, i've bought 3 lenses in a month.

Im no so much a lens whore, I have specific ones on my list, but nowhere near as bad as you prime nuts. I do have an addiction to fast, constant apertures tho.

Originally Posted by jacobsen1

O rly? Share them then!!!
and this is not a stab at what you have shared, it's a stab at you not sharing enough Kiki.

Funny thing is...I have shared my more decent ones. The only ones I haven't posted are some that I took of my friends' kids at the Super Bowl party, and I've just been too lazy to PP & post them. I'll get around to it eventually.

I'm waiting for it to warm back up so I can go out and play again instead of taking pictures of my cats every day.

-K

Originally Posted by LucKie355

I've just been too lazy to PP & post them. I'll get around to it eventually.

Taps foot impatiently.

Originally Posted by jacobsen1

Taps foot impatiently.

*middle finger*



-K