So, I found an ND filter from B+W that's rated at 3.0 which by their standards is 10-stops of neutral density (I believe)...

B+W 77mm 10-stop ND Filter:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ku=8120&is=REG

I want to pick one up, but they're out of stock. So, my first question is, anyone know where I can get one or something similar? I know there's a variable Singh-Ray out there but its a little pricey for me right now.

Also, I simply wanted to start a thread discussing these and similar filters. I think this is a tool that once I get past the learning curve, could be an awesome element to add to my bag of tricks in a sense.

I think long exposures in landscape photography can add an awesome dynamic element to an otherwise bland image... an idea I'd love to explore further.

6 minutes @ f/8:


So yeah, feel free to discuss, ask questions, etc. about this type of stuff in here.

That seems much more affordable than the Singh Ray, although I wouldn't mind having either to play. It seems that it might be easier to nail the exposure with a constant 10 stop, rather than the variable where you have to play more guess work with how many stops to adjust for.

I have the 9 stop Hoya X400 filter. Look for one of those, it's about $150 though for a 77mm filter vs the much cheaper B+W. It is multicoated however.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...l_Density.html

Originally Posted by anotherD80

btw, nit-pickers may point out that light can leak in if you're using a filter holder. Yeah, so what? Adjust by a half stop. That's what metering & manual mode are for. Most people forget to put a cover over the eye piece which probably causes more ruined photos than adjusting for light leakage around the filters anyway.)

True light coming in the eye piece will screw up your exposure, but it won't affect the photo itself. Light leaking around the filters would likely create a drop in contrast.

anotherd80, I knew you'd be joining this discussion as I remember your threads and posts about this. What you described is essentially my only concern with a 10-stop screw on filter, having to compose without the filter on, then attach it. This would be extremely difficult in some of the places I shoot but I think it'd be doable and its worth a shot for $100. I just need to find someone to pick one up. I have serious ideas for this thing...

bikefreax, the tint is something you're going to run into when shooting water scenes in the shade. They always record "cool" or blueish like that which is the result of a low white balance. Do you shoot in RAW or JPEG? If RAW, you can just adjust the white balance slider or use the "set white point" feature on the water to get the white balance much more accurate/realistic.

Originally Posted by emorphien

I have the 9 stop Hoya X400 filter. Look for one of those, it's about $150 though for a 77mm filter vs the much cheaper B+W. It is multicoated however.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...l_Density.html

Thanks! I'll definitely be on the lookout for one of those. $150 isn't bad and I'm really itching to try this thing out... mid-day long exposures have been in my head for quite a while now.

Oh nice, BH has those in stock now I just have to pull the trigger.

It's multicoated, which IMO is something that's needed. I wouldn't spend $104 on an uncoated filter.

Originally Posted by emorphien

It's multicoated, which IMO is something that's needed. I wouldn't spend $104 on an uncoated filter.

What exactly is the advantage to multicoated vs. not?

Basically the coatings are for reducing reflections. Multiple coatings allow reflectance for various wavelengths to be reduced even further.

Reducing the reflection makes the lens more optically efficient. How much is reflected depends on how different the refractive index of the medium the light is entering the lens from is compared to the refractive index of the lens itself. Although that amount of reflection isn't huge for most glasses. It also helps increase contrast by blocking stray light.

Originally Posted by bikefreax

I just got a x4 ND filter yesterday to help with my long exposures of running water. The only problem is it looks like it made everything a blue tint. I am a newbit to the digital domain so any help is appreciated.

if you are using PS, you can desaturate your blues or cyans to take away the cool WB.

Originally Posted by emorphien

Basically the coatings are for reducing reflections. Multiple coatings allow reflectance for various wavelengths to be reduced even further.

Reducing the reflection makes the lens more optically efficient. How much is reflected depends on how different the refractive index of the medium the light is entering the lens from is compared to the refractive index of the lens itself. Although that amount of reflection isn't huge for most glasses. It also helps increase contrast by blocking stray light.

Interesting. Glad my new polarizer is multi-coated then. Thanks for the response/explanation.

Actually I was wrong about how much light reflects. For some reason I was thinking of a filter as only one surface. Both sides of the filter must be coated as light can reflect off both sides. The amount of light reflecting could be 7-10% depending on the type of glass.

Originally Posted by distorto

if you are using PS, you can desaturate your blues or cyans to take away the cool WB.

You can also adjust white balance in the RAW converter if you are shooting RAW.

Theoretically your filter should be neutral so white balancing performed before attaching it should be OK.

Interesting discussion. I've yet to get ND's or even a single CPL.



bikefreax, et al, when shooting landscapes there's no excuse for not shooting your final image(s) in RAW. JPG is fine for checking exposure, etc. but don't skimp on your final version by shooting JPG.

NDs are stackable, why not buy 3 ND3's? besides the obvious extra glass, I think it would be cheaper. Kodak makes a ND4.0 (13 stops)

http://www.adorama.com/KKWFND400.html

Oh and we sell it too
kodak 4.0 ND filter :O
http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlineca...productID=2928
I think ill get one with my employee discount =D

Originally Posted by SlvrScoobie

NDs are stackable, why not buy 3 ND3's? besides the obvious extra glass, I think it would be cheaper.

The more you stack the more image quality is degraded and vignetting occurs. I intend to shoot profitable images with the setup once I get it figured out, so cost I'd like to spend the money on a good quality filter.

As for the posted filter, 13-stops is a bit much actually for me. If I'm already getting a 2-3 minute exposure at say 9-stops, 13 will put me into the hour long exposure range.

Scott, so nine stop is minutes in daylight then?

I've got some fun ideas for long exposures that are much easier to implement in the daylight anyway. NDs would be much easier to work with...

Originally Posted by jacobsen1

Scott, so nine stop is minutes in daylight then?

I've got some fun ideas for long exposures that are much easier to implement in the daylight anyway. NDs would be much easier to work with...

I figure I can get 1/2 second in late afternoon light at ISO 50 on the 5D.

So...

1. 1/2 s
2. 1 s
3. 2 s
4. 4 s
5. 8 s
6. 16 s
7. 32 s
8. 64 s
9. 128 s

Then, the stand rule of thumb is to add a stop for reciprocity (just what I've heard), so you're looking at between 2-4 minutes I'd say. My goal is to be able to get around a minute per exposure.

Reciprocity failure in my experience isn't a very large issue with the digital sensors. They have a much more controlled response to light and follow reciprocity much better than film.

Originally Posted by emorphien

Reciprocity failure in my experience isn't a very large issue with the digital sensors. They have a much more controlled response to light and follow reciprocity much better than film.

I know I didn't get my best exposure in the above shot until I overexposed it a bit from what I roughly calculated though that easily could have been because of a ton of other reasons. But at any rate, that should be something to keep in mind, not necessarily a rule to go by. I should have made that more clear above.

Thanks.

Just picked up the 77mm 10-stop B+W Multi-coated ND Filter... I'll post some results when it shows up and I can get to play with it. Should be fun.

Which filter is that? Got a link to it? As far as I can tell their 10 stop filter is uncoated.

Carl, here's the link...
http://www.amazon.com/77mm-3-0-1000x...1038608&sr=8-2

From the link:

Originally Posted by Product Description

B & W 77mm ND 3.0-1000x #110 Neutral Density Filter. Type: #110 Neutral Density. Size :77 mm. Grade :3.0 (exposure adjustment = 10 stops, transmits 0.1% of light). Filter Factor :Approx. 1000. Multi-Coated :No. Rotating :No. Effect :Reduce the amount of light reaching the film. Application :To use high speed films in bright sun. Color Temperature: No change. Construction :Schott Glass. Front Filter Thread Size :77 mm.

So, hopefully that's right and not a typo. But I'd be okay with it either way...

If you look at the way that's arranged it's saying "Multi-Coated :No." and then saying "Rotating :No." I know it doesn't rotate, and B&H says it isn't multicoated as well so I'd say this again confirms it's not multicoated (I don't even know if it has a single coating).

Personally, if I were you, I'd cancel if for something that is multi-coated. That's just me though.

Originally Posted by emorphien

If you look at the way that's arranged it's saying "Multi-Coated :No." and then saying "Rotating :No." I know it doesn't rotate, and B&H says it isn't multicoated as well so I'd say this again confirms it's not multicoated (I don't even know if it has a single coating).

Personally, if I were you, I'd cancel if for something that is multi-coated. That's just me though.

I'll look into the pros/cons, but the polarizer I've used for nearly every shot I've taken wasn't multi-coated, so I don't really think it's too big of a deal for me.

Are you investing in quality gear or just what you can get?

Bump, I just ordered a 10-stop, we'll see what I can put it to use for.

You had me fooled into thinking Scott was back

He's probably out using his filter.

Originally Posted by thechickencow

Bump, I just ordered a 10-stop, we'll see what I can put it to use for.

Sweet! I'm totally gonna get one too when I order my 40D.

Originally Posted by thechickencow

He's probably out using his filter.

And sleeping with coeds.

aww yeah.

yeah, i love the 10stop B+W, coated or not.
Only problem i had is that the white balance algorithms get a little wonky when your incoming light levels are so low.. Haven't played with it in a while, maybe ill finally get out and use it tomorrow on the overpass near my work (NJ TPK runs under it, looking directly west which would be awesome for a sunset shot.. just never go out and do it!)

I am wondering if I need to know anything special when I use this, or just go for it.

And 10 stop I will probably have to compose then screw it on, then calculate exposure?

Naw, just gotta be really patient, then your eyes will adjust.. youll be able to just see enough in most situations.

I wonder if live view will be able to work with it.

I'm excited to try it out.

have you guys ever taken two linear polarizers and mounted them together to net you a variable ND? when the axis of polarization on them are aligned you'll have a very light polarizer, and when perpendicular you'll have pretty much zero transmission.

I didn't know you can mount rotating filters on top of each other

i don't know if it's physically possible to stack them or not, which is why i'm throwing it out there. maybe someone with an LP can chime in?

I don't think my 58mm CP has threads for another filter

Originally Posted by user errors

I don't think my 58mm CP has threads for another filter

cp wont work, either. for it to work like a solid ND they both need to be linear.

one linear and one cp would give a pattern. two cps won't do anything differently than one cp.

I understood what you meant, I was just pointing out that it rotates and does not have additional threading.

Um, nobody is using screw in GRADUATED ND filters... this thread is about a 9 stop NEUTRAL DENSITY (i.e., sunglasses for your lens) filter.

Everyone that uses grad. ND filters, ASFAIK, uses a cokin holder with various brands of GRAD ND filters.

Yeah, I think there's a few of us with cokin or similar holders for our grad nd's. I've got hitech filters, I think Stime has singhray's, not sure what others use.

http://www.singh-ray.com/varind.html

Geez, I'm seriously thinking about ordering this thing....

Originally Posted by moduleum

http://www.singh-ray.com/varind.html

Geez, I'm seriously thinking about ordering this thing....

Why?

The reason I didn't buy it is that it's a) not strong enough for what I want to do, b) WAY over-priced (but I'm sure it's nice) and c) 'varied' which just means more stuff to break.

I'll stick with my 10-stop, non-varied any day for a third of the price.