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  1. #1
    fanboi thomps6s's Avatar
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    Default  Exposing to the right  
      
      

    Exposing to the right

    First off we need to learn about the camera’s histogram and what it represents. “The Histogram is a tonal representation of the dynamic range within an image”, at least that is what Wikipedia says. In simpler terms it is a graphic representation of the image you took. The histogram shows all of the data within the photo.When looking at your histogram, keep in mind the left side represents the shadows (Blacks/darks) and the right side represents the highlights (brights/whites) .
    Why is this important? If you overexpose the image, all of your highlight information is gone, it is unrecoverable.

    •Find the button on your camera that looks like this [+/-] This is the Exposure Compensation button.
    •The exposure compensation button can be used when your camera is in any Creative Exposure Mode. For example, you can use it while the mode dial is on P (for program), S (Nikon shutter priority), TV (Canon shutter priority), A or AV (aperture priority) modes.
    •Take your initial exposure, look at your histogram and adjust based on that information.
    •Hold the +/- button down while turning the main dial. (usually located by the shutter button)
    ______________________
    So, lets say your histogram looks like this, the image is “Underexposed”



    You want to expose longer to fill that histogram and get the data as close to the right without touching the right side.
    The histogram is broken up into 5 sections. This is how I gauge how much compensation to add. In this case, the under exposed histogram above would appear to be near 2 stops underexposed.
    I would then add +1.5 stops holding in the Exposure Compensation Button and moving the shutter speed dial until the top LCD shows +1.5.Now take another image and watch the histogram. You should be very close if not right on.



    By exposing to the right you are ensuring that you get the most data from that scene without over exposing.
    If you “over expose” like the image below, simply add negative exposure compensation and shoot again.



    You may be thrown off with how light the image looks when reviewing in Camera. This is Okay, you will have more leeway to make adjustments when you post process the file, especially if you are shooting in RAW.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that your histogram will look different from scene to scene but this is a good starting point.

    for instance a scene shot in heavy fog may yeild a single spike of data in the middle of the histogram. there isn’t much of anything you can do about it in a situation like that, which is Okay. The reason for this is, there are no highlights and there are no shadows in the scene.

    The same thing goes with taking a picture of a pile of coal, the histogram is going to be pushed very far to the left, simply because there are no highlights in the scene.

    After some simple photoshop tweaks, you should end up with a nice, clean image.
    aftershop

    For more detailed information on exposing to the right, visit HERE
    Last edited by thomps6s; 02-02-2010 at 02:02 PM.


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    cheesehead jacobsen1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomps6s View Post
    I am not the authority and the "splitting the histogram into fourths" is not the most technical definition, but it works for me and my simple mind.
    do you have any more info on that part? I've read somewhere that the right side of a histogram represents more than half of the info of an image... So you want to keep the histogram there then move it back in post in order to "collect" the most information... But I can't remember where and I'd love to find it again.
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    antiCTLNLHIASDR ride5000's Avatar
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    Worn out shutter PhatheadWRX's Avatar
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    Here is one more good article. http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tu...se-right.shtml

    My histogram has vertical bars that show the stop differences.

    While this is the best way to maintain S/N ratio, in practice I find it a pain to adjust the exposure "correctly" in post for every shot.
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    cheesehead jacobsen1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
    hey ken, from your post there:
    Quote Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
    first, a few links:

    zero noise photography
    that's the same guy/site from the HDR RAW thread I started yesterday!

    Quote Originally Posted by jacobsen1 View Post
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    Shawn: that's good stuff. I believe the histogram is supposed to represent FIVE stops, but breaking it into quarters is certainly easier to visualize quickly. I typically don't spend more than a few seconds viewing the histogram while shooting, so the simpler the better.

    Ken: The links you posted to The Luminous Landscape are some of my favorite articles on histograms... this site has been very helpful for me, I found it a few months ago and I have referred back to it a number of times.

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    subarubreasts... Juanita's Avatar
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    Awesome. I went through my train shots from yesterday and looked at the histogram. Thank you!

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    fanboi thomps6s's Avatar
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    The luminous landscape article is great. I was going to link to it for those that want more in depth information.

    Ken, thanks for adding your post here. I did a quick search here and didn't see that post.

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    nice post and some great links.

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    I just want to re-emphasize something Shawn mentioned - this technique only really works when the content itself is a "normal" exposure. There really is no "correct" exposure you can derive from a histogram. For instance, if you're taking a photo of a dove in the snow, your "correct" histogram is going to look much different than a black bunny in a coalfield. This is especially true if you're talking about post-processing histograms vs. capture histograms, which you would use for different purposes. Your capture histogram is more tuned to getting the best quality data in the capture - that may mean altering the exposure later in post so that it "looks right" by turning the exposure down, resulting in a completely different histogram at the end of it.

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    fanboi thomps6s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idjiit View Post
    I just want to re-emphasize something Shawn mentioned - this technique only really works when the content itself is a "normal" exposure. There really is no "correct" exposure you can derive from a histogram. For instance, if you're taking a photo of a dove in the snow, your "correct" histogram is going to look much different than a black bunny in a coalfield. This is especially true if you're talking about post-processing histograms vs. capture histograms, which you would use for different purposes. Your capture histogram is more tuned to getting the best quality data in the capture - that may mean altering the exposure later in post so that it "looks right" by turning the exposure down, resulting in a completely different histogram at the end of it.
    Great points!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idjiit View Post
    I just want to re-emphasize something Shawn mentioned - this technique only really works when the content itself is a "normal" exposure. There really is no "correct" exposure you can derive from a histogram. For instance, if you're taking a photo of a dove in the snow, your "correct" histogram is going to look much different than a black bunny in a coalfield. This is especially true if you're talking about post-processing histograms vs. capture histograms, which you would use for different purposes. Your capture histogram is more tuned to getting the best quality data in the capture - that may mean altering the exposure later in post so that it "looks right" by turning the exposure down, resulting in a completely different histogram at the end of it.

    So I just went out at lunch to practice this and I think ^^^ explains the issue I was having.

    I was taking pictures of the state capital with snow in the foreground and white cloudy sky above. I could get the histogram to move towards the right but had to be careful because I would get a spike on the extreme right margin with all that white? Or was I doing something else wrong?

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    Meter for the snow, that will help not blowing highlights (usually the brightest). Then, adjust for an exposure to the right depending on what you see on your histogram

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    has a full box... Jayso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomps6s View Post


    When looking at your histogram, keep in mind the left side represents the shadows and the right side represents the highlights.


    Find the button on your camera that looks like this
    [+/-]

    The exposure compensation button can be used when your camera is in any non-automatic mode. For example, you can use it while the mode dial is on P (for program), S (Nikon shutter priority), TV (Canon shutter priority), A or AV (aperture priority) and M (fully manual) modes.

    From the 40D manual:

    Turn the Mode Dial to any
    Creative Zone mode except .
    ---
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  15. #15
    fanboi thomps6s's Avatar
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    BUMPITY

    I tweaked this a bit and threw it up on my blog. Hopefully it helps people more than confuses them. I hope to get better at writing/explaining my thoughts the more I do these.

    A quick guide for “Exposing to the Right” | Shawn Thompson Photography - Duluth, MN

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    Thanks for bumping this. This is something I haven't been doing, but really should. One question, if the histogram (on my d90) is broken into 4 sections (instead of 5), would they also be roughly a stop each?

  17. #17
    fanboi thomps6s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian1971 View Post
    Thanks for bumping this. This is something I haven't been doing, but really should. One question, if the histogram (on my d90) is broken into 4 sections (instead of 5), would they also be roughly a stop each?
    I would figure them t be 1 1/4 stops each but that is just a guess. that should get you in the ballpark.

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    Shawn, add a couple of photos or diagrams to the original post and we can make it a front page blog thing.

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    fanboi thomps6s's Avatar
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    Done

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    front paged!
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    Nice! That's a good one for it.

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    fanboi thomps6s's Avatar
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    BAM!

  23. #23
    Please advise period Kilonad's Avatar
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    The whole five stop thing doesn't make much sense to me. I'm going to have to get out a gray card and my flash when I get home, and look at what happens to the histogram at different flash power levels, in one-stop increments.

    I like Guillermo's approach to dynamic range more than I like the Luminous Landscape's - it makes a lot more sense to me.

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    the dude from Jimmy Kimmel? (sp?)
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    Please advise period Kilonad's Avatar
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    Purple, because ice cream has no bones.

    (srsly, Ben - I don't get what you're talking about)

  26. #26
    fanboi thomps6s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilonad View Post
    The whole five stop thing doesn't make much sense to me. I'm going to have to get out a gray card and my flash when I get home, and look at what happens to the histogram at different flash power levels, in one-stop increments.

    I like Guillermo's approach to dynamic range more than I like the Luminous Landscape's - it makes a lot more sense to me.
    This is why I like being a simple minded photographer. Keep it simple, get the results, call it a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilonad View Post
    Purple, because ice cream has no bones.
    My head hurts.
    Quote Originally Posted by jacobsen1
    post bitches post

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilonad View Post
    (srsly, Ben - I don't get what you're talking about)
    there's a spanish stage hand on Jimmy Kimmel's show who's name sounds like it could be spelled:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilonad View Post
    Guillermo's.
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  29. #29
    fanboi thomps6s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobsen1 View Post
    front paged!
    The images are clipped on the front page article so the histograms don't show

  30. #30
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    They work fine for me...

  31. #31
    fanboi thomps6s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stime187 View Post
    They work fine for me...
    Interesting.

  32. #32
    cheesehead jacobsen1's Avatar
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    me too!
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  33. #33
    fanboi thomps6s's Avatar
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    Hmmmm, I am viewing on 1280x1024 Resolution and they are definitely clipped.

    On this page, they are fine. On the Home Page, they are not. http://newschoolofphotography.com/co...ing-right.html

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    Yeah, on the home page they have a ton of extra room for me...

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    123

  36. #36
    cheesehead jacobsen1's Avatar
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    maybe we should resize them and host them locally? those are quite wide and the side bars are eating the space...

    I am just missing the far right edge of the histo though, I can see the important part.
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    Weird. Here's my screen:


  38. #38
    fanboi thomps6s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobsen1 View Post
    maybe we should resize them and host them locally? those are quite wide and the side bars are eating the space...

    I am just missing the far right edge of the histo though, I can see the important part.
    Yeah, re size them and host them if you want, that's fine by me.

  39. #39
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    One important thing to remember is that the histogram represents the pixel count of a given luminosity of the *JPG* preview. At least on most cameras. If you're shooting RAW the histogram is close, but not quite a full representation of the DR you are shooting. Typically you'll have another full stop to the right in raw from the jpg preview, so don't be afraid to snug that curve up to the edge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geekybiker View Post
    One important thing to remember is that the histogram represents the pixel count of a given luminosity of the *JPG* preview. At least on most cameras. If you're shooting RAW the histogram is close, but not quite a full representation of the DR you are shooting. Typically you'll have another full stop to the right in raw from the jpg preview, so don't be afraid to snug that curve up to the edge.
    *nod* UniWB is a good way to get accurate histograms and set things later in post.

    histograms, exposing to the right, and raw files
    Getting the correct white balance
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    it's funny, I'll blow shots to the right every now and again, but I almost always can see it in post. Maybe it's because I always shoot at +.5EC though, but yeah, I HATE the look of pulled down highlights in post more than I hate the lost info in the shadows typically.
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    mmmm. Tasty. Great read!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobsen1 View Post
    it's funny, I'll blow shots to the right every now and again, but I almost always can see it in post. Maybe it's because I always shoot at +.5EC though, but yeah, I HATE the look of pulled down highlights in post more than I hate the lost info in the shadows typically.
    So you are saying shoot slightly darker and then bring them up?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bone View Post
    So you are saying shoot slightly darker and then bring them up?
    no. I'm saying if I blow it to the point it's underexposed AND LEAVE IT I prefer that to pulled back highlights at times. It depends how far we're pulling the file around though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobsen1 View Post
    no. I'm saying if I blow it to the point it's underexposed AND LEAVE IT I prefer that to pulled back highlights at times. It depends how far we're pulling the file around though.
    what is you were say 2/3rds either way of where you are supposed to be (speaking in terms of the meter that shows on my Canon T2i. Is that an area that you would just bring it to the wet spot and leave it? And how far is too far?
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    This may be a horribly noobie question to ask, but when doing this exposing to the right deal is the only way to achieve it through using the cameras exposure compensation? Can't you just modify your aperture/shutter speeds to get your histogram "to the right"? I guess using the exposure comp allows you to maintain the effect you want (through your selected shutter/aperture settings) while achieving the benefits of exposing to the right or is there some other reason EV compensation is required?

  47. #47
    cold-blooded internet insult machine Markitos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kornykidd0 View Post
    This may be a horribly noobie question to ask, but when doing this exposing to the right deal is the only way to achieve it through using the cameras exposure compensation? Can't you just modify your aperture/shutter speeds to get your histogram "to the right"? I guess using the exposure comp allows you to maintain the effect you want (through your selected shutter/aperture settings) while achieving the benefits of exposing to the right or is there some other reason EV compensation is required?
    You can do it either way, I suppose. I generally think of using EV when you are in Av or Tv, and just adjusting your exposure to taste based on the metering when you are in Manual. As long as the end result is the same, I can't see that it matters much how you got there.
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    Hmm my grandpa has been a photographer for over 30 years. And when he is out in the field he says he always underexposes his shots

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    antiCTLNLHIASDR ride5000's Avatar
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    exposure compensation has no effect or relevance when in manual mode... you just read your exposure meter.

    exposure comp just "offsets" the exposure meter when the camera is deciding which shutter and aperture to use.

    i capture as "hot" as possible WITHOUT clipping RELEVANT highlights.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by AWD FTW! View Post
    Hmm my grandpa has been a photographer for over 30 years. And when he is out in the field he says he always underexposes his shots
    he shooting film or digital? And when digital first came out, that was a pretty popular thought. But as people have played with it more and learned about where the data is (the engineers have always known this but photographers are stubborn and need proof/time) exposing to the right and recovering has become popular/excepted. You MUST shoot RAW to do it though, and you have to know how far to go. Blown highlights (that can't be recovered) are MUCH more obvious than blocked up shadows to most people, so that's why some people prefer the underexposure route.
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