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The Master ND & Grad ND Filter thread |
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I've got a cart set up at b&h ready to order, here's what I'm looking at:
Cokin "P" Series - Filter Holder, 77mm Adapter Ring and 28 Page Pamphlet - $13.99
Cokin Graduated Neutral Density Filter Kit for "P" Series - Requires Adapter Ring - $52.99 (includes filter holder, p121L, p121M, p121S)
Cokin P153 Gray Neutral Density (ND) 4x Resin Filter - $17.95
I like B&H but am OK with somewhere else if its cheaper/better for some reason (is that possible?)
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
I'm not sure... I hate all the denotions/labeling. Buying filters is way too complicated.
If you have an adapter ring for your lens, a holder that fits the filters and adapter ring, and some grad. NDs in various strengths (2-stop, 3-stop, etc.) and graduation types (soft, hard, reverse, etc.) then I'd say you got a good setup.
What's the Cokin P153 doing? Do you want a standard ND filter? Good to have, but I just want to be sure you have the right thing.
- Scott
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
The 3 in the kit are like 2, 4, 8, all in soft edge. I'll pick up hards as time goes on, don't wanna blow my filter wad all at once.
I figured the standard ND would be useful, but I was just thinking that for no real reason. If its not as useful as others, let me know - I don't know any specific shots that I'd be using it for right now.
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
No standard NDs rock, I just wanted to be sure.Originally Posted by thechickencow
Also, can you change the kit at all? I'm assuming that 1, 2, and 3 stop strength. But personally, I have a 1-stop that I've never used and I use hard line much more often than soft. Just something to consider.
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
Absolutely in my opinion. When I buy my next setup, it'll be 2 & 3, Hard and 2 & 3, Soft.
- Scott
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
So I know what I want, but I'm not sure what to order.
Ben looks to ahve had the same dilemna, I wonder if he figured it out.
What was that website with filters besides b&h?
The other companies are easier to understand, but twice as expensive.
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
Yeah, that's mostly my problem. I just don't get what each thing is, I know exactly what I want...
And yeah, 2filter... great place, but still very confusing.
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
You think $40/filter is expensive?I'm looking at picking up some 4x6 Singh Rays... try $160/filter.
I just wish I already had my new stuff, I'd sell you all my older ones for practically nothing. And they are HiTechs you see on 2filter, good stuff in my opinion. I just wish I could find some HiTech (or otherwise) 4x6 filters...
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
Here's my $.02 ... we (nobody) can tell you exactly which ones to get, but I wholeheartedly recommend starting with Cokins. Why? Cuz they are the cheapest. Buy as many different ones as you can. Then go shooting for 6 months. You'll start coming back to just a few of them. Once you know what you really need, sell the Cokins and upgrade (Hitech are probably the cheapest good quality. Agree, Scott?). You'll want better quality filters once you learn how to use them ... so spend the money on cheap ones to learn, then upgrade once you know exactly what you need.
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
Agreed for the most part. But I'd just stick with HiTech, the difference in price isn't all that great (is it?) and I've always heard bad things (color casts, etc.) with the Cokins.
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
Hitech's are twice the price. That's if you stick with P size. I'm giving away my P Cokins now and upgrading to Z Hitechs (4x4 and 4x5) which are more than 3x the cost of P Cokins.
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
OMGHI2U!!
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
The problem is that if I want 2 and 3 stop soft and hard line, there aren't options for all of those from cokin, so I'm forced to at least partially go hitech. I'd rather just have them all be the same.
I don't get how Cokin has all the sizes determined, but apparently makes the crappiest filters? wtf?
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
Yeah, beats me too.
I just wish I would've won that stupid Canon contest, I'd be rocking a full Singh Ray 4x6 setup now.
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
I've heard it's okay if you keep the filter holder perfectly vertical ... but that's one of the reasons I'm going to Z. I don't want to have to worry about it. It would certainly be a problem if you had another gadget on the front of your lens first (like a polarizer or color enhancer before the filter holder) Plus, I find myself preferring to hand hold the filters when I have a tripod. I only use the holder when the tripod is at home. (I haven't done any 10 minute exposures yet, which I would also use the holder for)
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
OMGHI2U!!Giving them to a couple travel friends to experiment with. If they end up in a pile collecting dust, I'll send them to NSoPers.
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
No. The P-series (what I have) isn't big enough for me all the time on a 17mm lens on a crop body. You need bigger, which I guess, means the Z-Pro.
If you used right, you will almost never have the filter completely vertical. It will be turned and up or down depending on where the horizon lies. You don't want the filter to dictate composition in any way, shape, or form.
- Scott
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
How big are the z-pro's? Length/width? Are they Cokins or HiTech?
I need to start getting my new setup laid out. There's no sense in me buying a 5D without grad. NDs, it'll just sit til I have 'em.
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
4x4 or looks like 4x5 on 2filters.com.
http://2filter.com/prices/Hitech/Hitechgradzpro.html
http://www.2filter.com/prices/Hitech/Hitech4x4.html
So if the holder is 4x4 and the filter is 4x5 do you just move it up/down in the holder to compensate for where you want the line?
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
Exactly. Do not get a 4x4, that would be miserable. You also turn it side-to-side to compensate for a different line of light. Personally, I think 4x5 is too short of a ratio, I'd like to find some 4x6s that aren't Singh Rays, but its not looking good.
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
So, I just laid out my cart for what I'll need with the 5D on 2filter.com:
- HiTech 4x4 MK4 WA Filter Holder
- 4x5 HiTech .9 Hard Grad. ND
- 4x5 HiTech .6 Hard Grad. ND
- 4x5 HiTech .9 Soft Grad. ND
- 4x5 HiTech .6 Soft Grad. ND
- HiTech 77mm Adapter Ring (17-40)
- HiTech 67mm Adapter Ring (70-200)
- B+W 77mm MRC Circular Polarizer
- HiTech 4x4 1.2 Solid ND Filter
Grand Total: $689.29
Ouch. Anyone want to buy some prints?
- Scott
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
I'm not sure if I'll go with the hitech holder/adapter, I don't know if thats really necessary, but those grads are exactly the ones I was looking at. Could I just use a cokin holder?
I'd like to eventually et the solid ND filter too, but I'm holding off on that and the CP.
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
Just figured out my cart:
z-pro cokin holder
z-pro 77mm adapter
.6 hard & soft 4x5 grads
.9 hard & soft 4x5 grads
$345.xx shipped. The cokin holder says it works with any brand filter, so I figure I can give it a shot and go from there. My smaller front element lenses I figured I'd use a step-up ring rather than buy another $30-40 adapter but I will wait and see what the adapter looks like first.
Scott, if I was going to buy either just hards, or just softs, is there one thats more useful, or do you use them evenly? Without actually using them I figure I'll end up using both but if one is used 90% and one is 10% maybe i'll just start with 2 of them.
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
I've heard the Cokin works with any of them, but to be honest, I just don't like Cokin period and I love the quality that seems to come with Hitech despite it not being too expensive. When it comes to this grad. setup, I'm doing it right, no more half-assing it for me.
I like Hards more and use them more often. But the next landscape photographer could come here and say Hards leave too noticeable of a line an Softs are the way to go. Good call having both, different situations call for different ones and you'll fall into a rhythym of which to use pretty quickly.Scott, if I was going to buy either just hards, or just softs, is there one thats more useful, or do you use them evenly? Without actually using them I figure I'll end up using both but if one is used 90% and one is 10% maybe i'll just start with 2 of them.
Please take some shots of the setup when it comes, I'd appreciate it.
- Scott
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
They're my favorite thing in my bag. Using Grad. NDs truly changed the way I photograph and the quality of my work, no doubt. You'll love 'em.
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
Would the "Lee 4x4 Filter Holder" with 77mm adapter and GND .6 Soft Edge 4x6 (lee) or 4x5 (hitech) work on a 5d setup?
To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
See my post above. That (HiTech 4x5) is exactly what I'm buying for my 5D + 17-40 L setup that I'll have sometime in the next month or so.
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
So would HiTech 4x4 MK4 WA Filter Holder work on my 24-70, or would i have to buy the 'normal' one? I was also wondering about the Lee holder since it is half the price of the hitech one. If the Lee holder works for a 5D + 24-70L and 17-40L, i would get that one.. but does it?See my post above. That (HiTech 4x5) is exactly what I'm buying for my 5D + 17-40 L setup that I'll have sometime in the next month or so.
To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
The holder doesn't fit anything as far as I know. Its the adapter rings that make them work.
Like I'm getting a 77mm AR for my 17-40 L and a 67mm AR for my 70-200 f/4 L.
And, just out of curiousity, do you have a 5D, 17-40L, and 24-70L?? Damn, dude.
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
Okay, with the proper adapter rings on the 17-40 and 24-70, will the Lee holder work on the 5d setup?
Only the 24-70L. I'm getting the new 5D when it's released, so i don't want to buy anything that doesn't work on it. I realized that, even if i got a 40D for my bday, i would still really want the new 5D.. so that's my birthday AND christmas present.I might get a 17-40L in the future, if 24mm on the 5D isn't wide enough for me.
To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
The Lee holder should be fine, but I don't know for sure.Okay, with the proper adapter rings on the 17-40 and 24-70, will the Lee holder work on the 5d setup?
Damn! So, you've been into photography for 9 months and you have the 300D right now but you're jumping to the 5DmkII? Any reason why you don't just get the current 5D + 17-40L?Only the 24-70L. I'm getting the new 5D when it's released, so i don't want to buy anything that doesn't work on it. I realized that, even if i got a 40D for my bday, i would still really want the new 5D.. so that's my birthday AND christmas present.
I'll be buying the current 5D when I get enough money scraped together, and to be honest, I couldn't care less about the new version, I guess I'm of the impression, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The 5D is perfect for what I do and proven in the field.
But yeah, congrats on being able to have all that stuff at such a young age.
- Scott
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
Stime - with hard line grad filters, how does it come out when taking picture of a mountain in the sky? Will you noticeably see the line in the mountain where the sky ends vertically and the line is set?
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
Yeah, I still haven't found a single photog willing to post pre-processed images to give an example of this. The few times I've tried not covering the whole sky, the little bit not filtered is massively over-exposed. More practice ... and learning how to dodge/burn in PS would be good.
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
Pretty close to what I've ordered. I've actually placed 3 orders recently and included some crap on a Christmas list ... so I can't really be sure what'll be in my bag come January. I think it'll be something like:
- Cokin Z Pro holder
- 77mm Z Pro adapter
- 2x Hitech 4x4 1.2 ND
- .6 Hitech 4x5 hard grad ND
- .9 Hitech 4x5 hard grad ND
- 77mm Singh-Ray LB Warming Polarizer
Oh, the Sigma 10-20mm will be purchased soon as well. I love wide and the the quality at 18mm sucks on my new lens.
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
I'd be glad to post some examples, it very much is possible. Every scene is different as are different types of mountains when it comes to photographing them. In my experience, mountains out west (sharper/snow/etc.) are much more kind to hard-line grad. NDs than mountains in the eastern US (more rolling).Yeah, I still haven't found a single photog willing to post pre-processed images to give an example of this. The few times I've tried not covering the whole sky, the little bit not filtered is massively over-exposed. More practice ... and learning how to dodge/burn in PS would be good.
- Scott
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
Just seeing that hard edge would be a huge help. It's still not clear to me how much touch-up I should be doing in PS. Right now it feels like I'm painting, which isn't what I want!
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
And a good, serious lens, too. Lots of goodness in a small package.
M
“Sharpness is a Bourgeois concept.” -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
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Re: Does this look good (grad ND's and holders)? |
See, that's the key... the examples (or atleast one I KNOW of), you can't see the hard line, its just isn't visible. That's the goal, any touch up should be minor at most.Just seeing that hard edge would be a huge help. It's still not clear to me how much touch-up I should be doing in PS. Right now it feels like I'm painting, which isn't what I want!
- Scott
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