...but am unsure what the model#'s (possibly serial#) mean.

They have recertified ones on newegg for $599 with model#25412rct (body only).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16830113067

A new one for $975, model# 9425 with kit lens.

One classified as "open box" for $599, model# 25412.

Does anyone know how the model of the new one compares to either the re-certified or open box model? I kind of just want to buy only the body from there so i can get the 18-200 lens. However, I don't necessarily want to pick up an older model of the same camera if there have been any changes.

I guess I should throw in a few more details here. A few of the reasons I need to upgrade are:

well..I'm upgrading from a 4MP Panasonic Lumix FZ-10, so we'll just leave it at that.

But one of the main reasons are to expand my photography skills by utilizing the versatility of an SLR, and particularly produce better indoor shots. I'm not sure if the 18-200 is a decent lens or not for indoor shots. Hell, I'm such a noob that I don't really even know how to read the f-stop numbers. If just one f-stop number is listed in the lens name, is there no range of aperture settings? I'm not sure I can take a decent indoor ambient shot at 1/20 with f 3.5

The 18-200 is a decently fast lens for a consumer zoom, esp. at its wide end. The long end is, I think 5.6, which is not particularly fast. To really get good indoor shots, you'll need to use flash. Pro zooms generally feature a 2.8 constant aperture, which is faster, but still not really fast. For the best ambient light indoor shots, you will need fast prime (i.e., non zoom) lenses that feature maximum apertures of 1.4 or 1.8, with the 1.8s being the generally more affordable versions.

If only one aperture number is listed, it means that that is the maximum aperture across the entire zoom range. For example, my 17-55mm f2.8 lens can open up to f2.8 at 17mm, at 55mm, and everything in between. In contrast, the 18-200 is only an f3.5 lens at the 18mm end, and that maximum aperture starts getting smaller as soon as you start zooming.

The upside is that the D80 is a pretty good high ISO performer, so to compensate somewhat, you can shoot at higher ISOs. If you want the best quality photos, though, you should either get an external flash or fast lenses or both.

Aperture Tutorial
Exposure Tutorial

Let me know if that is helpful and if you have more questions, ask 'em!

M

Originally Posted by anotherD80

Originally Posted by Markitos

The 18-200 is a decently fast lens for a consumer zoom, esp. at its wide end.

I've read this in many places, but it's totally not the case with my lens. I've been disappointed at the wide end. Quality is amazing as you increase the focal length though.

This seems to be the general consensus ... some people get a version that is stellar across the range and others have weakness at the wide end.

I didn't say the 18-200 was a SHARP or fantastic lens at the wide end, I just said it was decently fast--f3.5 is only like a 1/2 stop slower than f2.8. Most consumer zooms are a little soft wide open and at the wide end of the zoom range... the 18-200 is worse than average in this regard b/c it covers such a huge zoom range. Which is not to say that it's a bad lens, just that it has to make some compromises, most of which wouldn't really be noticed or important unless you were pixel peeping.

As far as ISO goes, it depends on what you consider "acceptable." I generally try not to shoot over 800 on either my D70 or D200, but if it's between getting the shot or not, I will crank them up to 1600 and hope for the best. The key with high ISO shooting is that you really have to nail the exposure... anything underexposed will come out really noisy.

There is more I could say, but that's the gist of it.

M

Markitos-

Yes, that was helpful. I can't say that I understand it all, especially when you refer to "fast" and "slow" of the aperture setting, but I'll look into it more today and tomorrow.

I think what I'm going to do is order the camera from somewhere with a kit lens for general shooting (cheaper than ordering the camera and body separately) and also get the 17-55 for indoor ambient shots.

Anyone know where i can get a decent deal online with a kit lens (I guess either the 18-135 or 18-200?), the 17-55, and body all in one order?

Hrmm....

Or I could just get the Nikon 50mm f/1.8D AF Nikkor lens and save over $1k! Maybe this is a better "starter" lens anyway, although it IS a prime. I'm thinking that I won't be doing as much zooming indoors anyway.

Yes, I guess I would be duplicating the range. However, it may seem like a dumb reason to some, but I would really like to have a first lens that takes decent shots in low, ambient light, as illustrated in markitos' 17-55 thread.

Would getting a body with this lens (buying separately I guess) make sense as a first (SLR) purchase? I'd probably be buying a "kit" type lens within a month or so. I'm going back to the states next week and I'd like to take some decent indoor shots of my sister's wedding. For now, I have the ol' FZ-10 to take outdoor shots.

Also, what place online would be a good place to go shopping? Amazon? B&H? Newegg?

Amazon, B&H, and Adorama are all tried and true places to order camera gear, and they all do a great job. The 17-55 is a great lens, but do you REALLY want to spend $1k on your first lens??? If you were going to spend that much, I would think the 18-200 would give you MUCH more versatility. The "kit" 18-70 can be had very cheaply and is 95% as good as the 17-55.

Don't get me wrong, I love the 17-55, and I'm glad I have it. But I bought it because I was going to be the ONLY wedding photographer for my brother in law, and I couldn't screw that up. It also covers the range I use the majority of the time, so for me it was worth it.

When I say a lens is "fast," I mean it has a large maximum aperture. Large maximum aperture (small f number) means the lens lets in more light, allowing you to shoot at a faster shutter speed, stopping motion and hand shake so your pictures are sharp. Alternately, for non-moving subjects and a steady hand, it lets you shoot at a lower ISO. A "slow" lens has a smaller maximum aperture, meaning you have to use longer shutter speeds and/or a higher ISO to take sharp, action-stopping photos, making it less useful in low light unless you have a flash.

A $250 SB-600 speedlight (external flash) is a great investment--I think it is one of my most useful pieces of equipment. It's cheap and it works great. If you know/learn how to control the flash, it can look as natural as not using flash.

What I'm hinting at here is that in the majority of low-light indoor situations I have encountered, generally having an aperture of 2.8 over one of 3.5 is the difference between shooting at 1/30th of a second (f2.8 ) or 1/20th of a second (f3.5). Those are arguably hand-holdable, depending on the person, but neither will stop action if anything is moving. In either case you really would benefit from the use of flash. I bought my 17-55 for the build quality, for the optical quality, for the constant aperture across the zoom range, and for the added DOF control. I did NOT buy the 17-55 because it would really help in low-light situations.

Lenses will always be better investments than a camera body, but only if they really suit your needs and help you to get the photographs you want to take. I'm not saying don't buy the lens, I'm just trying to give you the perspective of someone who has it and the 18-70 and uses both regularly.

M

PS--I wanted to add that the 17-55 is a LARGE, heavy lens, while some of the others I've mentioned are much smaller and lighter. Just something to add to your consideration.

FWIW my D50 is reconditioned and it had to go in for service last year. They treated it just like any other camera and had it back quickly.

If you're going to get the 17-55 I would just skip the kit lens altogether and go for the body only.

Oh yeah, I'll second markitos and say the external flash is an invaluable piece of equipment for indoor shots.

Markitos-

Thanks a ton. Your help has been invaluable.

Hehe, of course I don't want to spend $1k on my first lens! I didn't know an 18-70 existed. Guess this shows how much of a noob I am. This does sound like what I'll be looking for since it has compares similarly to the 17-55. This in combination with a speedlight might be a better solution for me anyway technically and cost-wise, since I need to learn how to effectively utilize it. Using the flash correctly on my FZ-10 has always boggled me, so I might as well learn now. I'm not really digging F3.5-4.5 though...

Originally Posted by anotherD80

Basically what I've been trying to say is that the D80 and kit 18-135 is a great first purchase; not a waste of $$ in any way. It's plenty of camera to grow into and a very versatile/sharp lens. Rather than make a lot of guessing on how you'll use the camera and what gear you'll need, just buy something that will allow you to do anything (D80 and kit). As you build habits and learn what your primary needs are, then start upgrading. This is the most efficient use of your $$.

My $.02

I agree with this 100%. And thank you for the speedlight correction--I couldn't remember how much mine was, just that it was ~$200-250.

M

D80, Markitos-

Thanks for all the info. I can't wait to be a part of the Nikonian crowd! Damn, seems like I've been meaning to make this leap for the loooongest time.

Anyway, I took your advice and got all the D80 kit with the 18-135, SB-600 speedlight and an extra battery on bhphoto for $1297. I'll probably wait until I'm back in the states to buy a bag for it. I can already tell that this is going to become an addiction. I guess the biggest obstacle that I'll be overcoming first is learning how to use the flash correctly.

:Excited:!

I've gotta give props to ol' trusty that'll be going into semi-retirement. I've banged this thing around and even dropped it in the sand last week when I rolled a 4-wheeler and she's still kicking.

The beauty of the SB-600 is that you can put your camera in Program mode (P), but your flash in Auto TTL (through the lens) mode, and fire away.

Later you will learn how to fine tune, but it's really just that easy to get going.

Congratulations on all the stuff. Make sure to post your very first photo when you take it, no matter what the quality. I'm sure you'll enjoy the D80--I love my D70 and still use it regularly, even though I have the D200--the D80 is like a perfect blend of the two.

M