Canon 40D body only $1119.00
Canon EF-S 10-22 $639.00

TOTAL: $1758.00

OR

Canon 5D body only $2109.95.



Both are effectively similar solutions to the FF dilemma. Plus the sigma 10mm FE would replace the Canon 15mm if I went with a cropped body. I could also effectively replace the 10-22 with the 17-55 IS as im pretty much set on getting one anyway.

5D. This thing rocks.

It's a tough call matt.

If it weren't for the fact I love my primes at the FLs they are on FF, epsecially the TS-Es I could see myself with a 40D now:

• 10-22 or 17-40mm (17-40mm is constant f4 and weather sealed, but optically similar)
• 17-55 or 24-70mm (on has IS, one is sealed)
• 70-200mm would just be longer on a 1.6
• 10mm or 15mm FE, both give the same effect for the same price with the same aperture...

So yeah, factor out the TS-E and low light primes I have and or want, and with the UWA EF-S zoom and the 10mm FEs that are available now, I could effectively have the same coverage on a 1.6 AND have more range... but for the same reason I'm not going to a D3 I'm staying with a 5D. It's too much of a PITA to switch, especially when I LOVE my 5D. I have zero complaints with it, I just wonder if the less expensive option would really be as good in reality as it sounds on paper.

As Scott says, the 5D rocks and I love it, so I'm not switching.
...but if I were starting fresh, I'd consider both packages. Especially because I'd keep the same wide end but gain 60% on the long end....

and where does the 70-200 IS factor in here?

IMHO, if that's a given, get the 5D. The 24-70mm will be a bunch wider on the 5D and then the 70-200 on the 30D will be longer than it is on the 5D. That would be a pretty killer wedding setup IMHO. Then you can play with my 17-40mm and see how you like that.

the hard part for you is you don't really shoot that wide. Wide is where issues come in because you either need the 10-22 for the 1.6 or something else for a FF... With the medium range the 24-70 works on either body and the 70-200 works as a tele on either body.... So you really need to figure out which sensor size you want, and stick with that.

the 40D has all those new bells and whistles now on a 1.6 where the 5D is "outdated" but FF. It's still a wonderful camera and will go together better with your 30D though.

Yea, I keep going back and forth. The wide end is the tough part, I could see it being useful for a small handful of wedding shots, but the bulk will be the mid zooms and tele zooms.

my two Ideal setups would be.

30D w/ 70-200 IS / 580exII
XTi w/ 17-55 IS / 580exII


Another 30D or 40D w/ 24-70.
OR
5D w/ 24-70.

Originally Posted by bikefreax

Whoa you guys are really up on these things. As a newbie I have no idea what all you are talking about but it's fun to read anyway. I am happy with my $750 setup.

yea, dont misunderstand me by saying im unhappy, I love my cameras, but I shoot weddings so I need another camera body. The problem Im having is deciding between a full frame body or a crop body. Both can do the same thing, just need different methods to achieve them.

Originally Posted by bikefreax

What is the difference between a full and a crop body? I have an Olympus e-510, which is mine considered?

Its the sensor size, a Full frame sensor is = to 35mm film frame.

The Canon Rebel line and 10-40Ds are cropped sensors at 1.6.

example,

a 100mm lens on a Full Frame sensor = 100mm
That same lens on a 1.6 crop body = 160mm

Ben has some great photo examples posted here that im sure will make more sense.

The only reason I want a 40d is for motorsports. It will outperform my Rebel with its 6.5fps and greater MP, and with its crop sensor it maintains the perfect complement to the 5D full frame. Between those two cameras I can shoot everything, and I do try to shoot everything.

With your focus on weddings, I almost think you're limiting yourself by having 2 crop bodies. If you're thinking about a 40d and the 10-22 for wide stuff, then realize you almost have that range covered with your 18-55 on a 5D. And the 24-70 is simply exquisite on the 5D. Hell, the 5D is just plain amazing anyway.

Originally Posted by tardypizza

With your focus on weddings, I almost think you're limiting yourself by having 2 crop bodies. If you're thinking about a 40d and the 10-22 for wide stuff, then realize you almost have that range covered with your 18-55 on a 5D. And the 24-70 is simply exquisite on the 5D. Hell, the 5D is just plain amazing anyway.

yea, I see what your saying, If I went 5D Id get the 17-40, the 18-55 or 17-55 wont work on the 5D as they are both EF-S. The thing is that if either were significantly better IQ than the other Id go that route, but the only important difference for me at least is FF vs FPS.

Originally Posted by subimatt

the 18-55 or 17-55 wont work on the 5D as they are both EF-S.

oops, I should have looked closer. But yeah, the 17-40 is awesome on the 5D too. It's wide, but it's not jacobsen-wide.

In your experience has there been any missed opportunities for shots because you were stuck with only 3 fps?

Originally Posted by tardypizza

It's wide, but it's not jacobsen-wide.

Originally Posted by tardypizza

In your experience has there been any missed opportunities for shots because you were stuck with only 3 fps?

Not really, but If I have to do burst, I usually use the 30D which is plenty. Ive been leaning towards the 5D, but is it worth the $$ difference?

Originally Posted by subimatt

Ive been leaning towards the 5D, but is it worth the $$ difference?

It can't answer that for you, but after owning one for about 6 months I don't think I could give it up. It makes good shots great, and great shots phenomenal.

Why don't you rent both the 5D and the 40D for a weekend?

because then i will want both.

Originally Posted by subimatt

but the only important difference for me at least is FF vs FPS.

Seriously, you use FPS at a wedding? the 3 fps is more than enough for anything but skiing/snowboarding for me. That's why I have my 1D. I also want a 40D eventually as a digital TC honestly. But I'd rather buy better glass than another body at this point. I had the XTi and just couldn't get into a non FF camera honestly.

Originally Posted by tardypizza

Why don't you rent both the 5D and the 40D for a weekend?

That's a brilliant idea Ted. If you can Matt, do it. Callumet in Boston rents. You're welcome to come borrow mine for a day in Newport or something. Then you just have to find a 40D... But IMHO you need to do it side by side, so you could maybe rent the 40D and bring it down here. Then we could swap back on forth between the 2 and use our own cards....

as Ted said, we don't have 40Ds to compare. The 5D is "special" and does amazing things IQ wise. For the n00bs out there reading this it won't save a crappy shot, but there is something special with this body. People have said the 40D is "just as good" but not many of them actually own a 5D so how true is that versus how much of that is them wanting it to be true? I've wondered myself, because if it was as good I could save some money on a 1.6 setup now that they have decent 1.6 wide angle and FE lenses.

here's an example of what the same lens would look like on the 3 canon crops:

ie that's taken with a Full Frame 5D. If that same lens was used on a 1.3 cropped body (1D, 1DmII, 1DmIII) it would be the middle line, and if it was used on any of the 1.6 bodies (Drebels, 40D and similar to the Nikons) it would only have the inner most white line in the image... Now it was taken on a FF with a 15mm FE. Your other option if you needed that shot would be a 10mm FE on the 1.6/1.5 cropped bodies... It would be very similar because of the wider lens, but on a cropped body.

Thats a good idea Ben, ill take a look into renting a 40D and we can plan something from there. I still want to do a full shoot day in Newport and surrounding area.

Yeah, then I'll get to play with a 40D too.
See if you can rent the 10-22 at the same time. I'm very curios to see how it on a 40D stacks up against my 5D and 17-40mm....

calumet (in cambridge) has the 40D and 10-22, as well as the 17-55 IS... So you could rent everything you want to play with, and I have half of what you'd be looking at...
http://www.calumetphoto.com/rental/digitalcameras

^ any idea on their prices? Ill have to call them, 25$ to borrow the 10-20 is a good idea. If anything it will be the same viewpoint on my 30 and xti.

Not on bodies... Damn the "please call" bull****.
and no, YOU HAVE TO RENT THE 40D MATT!!!!
I want to see it's IQ -vs- the 5D...

Originally Posted by jacobsen1

Not on bodies... Damn the "please call" bull****.
and no, YOU HAVE TO RENT THE 40D MATT!!!!
I want to see it's IQ -vs- the 5D...

yessir!

what are you doing Feb 2nd? We will be down there for my B-day, going to do BAP ect. up for some shooting?

friday: D&B with you
saturday: last day skiing this winter
sunday: SUPERBOWL!!!!

so I might be able to shoot Sunday? And we could play in the mall Friday night if you were to pick them up for say the weekend on Friday.

Originally Posted by jacobsen1

friday: D&B with you
saturday: last day skiing this winter
sunday: SUPERBOWL!!!!

so I might be able to shoot Sunday? And we could play in the mall Friday night if you were to pick them up for say the weekend on Friday.

hmm, or maybe Ill try to rent it for the 10th when we go to NYC and BH.

ok, So I played with the 40D yesterday. Didnt get to do any real shoot tests with it since it was in store. I did NOT like the menu system. Its a cross between the XTi and the 30D. I think that I may just stick to the 5D route.

Originally Posted by subimatt

I think that I may just stick to the 5D route.

Yeah, that really is the only sensible solution.

I think the biggest factor for me would be the FPS, if you need it go with the 40d, if not go with the 5d.

Personally I can't see myself going to FF unless it was faster than my 6.5 fps. I only want one body for now and the 40d can do it all for me.

I'm really thinking that if I got a 10mm FE and a mid range like the 17-55IS I'd be set, I really don't think I need anything else with what I've already got.

Originally Posted by thechickencow

I really don't think I need anything else with what I've already got.

If I had a dollar for everytime I've said that or read that, I'd be showing you guys my D3 photos......

Originally Posted by SlvrScoobie

Ive been crop since the 20D was announced with the 10-22 and I found out it didnt suck
I love the crop body, and dont think id switch, unless some awesome sauce 16-20 bit camera came along with 20+ mp...
but it would only be another few months till the similar crop body appeared so..
I know not of this IQ you talk about, but my raw has saved many a shot..

yea, its not that I mind the crop bodies at all, I like the 40D. I played with one and its a great camera. I did not like the menu system on it. The 5D is identical to my 30D but with FF. So when I do weddings, knowing exactly what does this and where is important when settings need to be changed fast. Plus I have two crop bodies currently and it would add a bit more focal length variety with my current lenses.

IQ = Image Quality.

A 5D wont be in the budget until fall tho, I may actually wait and see what the replacement is and buy one. Ill be picking up another 30D for the time being. The price is right and will get me through this season.